My slightly crap comparison between ACN and Scientology

Reader Matsonian writes:

Wow dan. I was very interested in your post, until you attacked Ravi about how he responded to you. Oops”… look I did it to. Compliment you on your post”… wow, I must be trying to manipulate the argument. And then to throw Scientology into it? A bit intelectually off center, don’t you think?
I am interested in knowing if the Iris 3000 supports other protocals. In fact I found this forum because I was looking ot see if there was any way for me to use Skype video to call a video phone, and not just another Skype user. Any information would be helpful”… thanks! (and lay off attacking others, just provide information, it gives you greater credibility”… just look at our presidential race for guidance)

My response below:

Hi Matsonian,

You make a good point – I was rather too cynical about Ravi’s post. But then again, he’s an ACN reseller, so don’t I have reason to be?

I think my language was too negative. I do (in real life) tend to be the kind of person that gives others the benefit of the doubt, however everyone knows the online world can tempt us to vent for its own sake 😉

The comparison with Scientology is actually valid, in my opinion. Scientologists (and I have spoken with quite a few over the years, at various levels of the organisation) are often trained using very particular negotiating techniques that typically represent a bit of traditional marketing, a bit of religious hyperbole, and some aspects of NLP.

Let me also make the point that there are many other organisations that operate similarly to ACN and to Scientology. I’m singling these out as case studies rather than saying “they’re the only two organisations in the world that practise network marketing”. Also, there are many distinctions between them, and I would agree that Scientology is much more insidious and generally crap for society. Nevertheless, a valid comparison can be made.

My first personal encounter with an ACN representative was very, very similar to encounters with Scientologists. He misrepresented his business to get me to come to the table (Scientologists do so using “free IQ tests”), and then used this opporunity to try and sell me mobile phone plans. I tried to find out more about his business model and plans, however at every point where a matter of hard facts was raised (e.g. “is this phone compatible with video phones from other manufacturers? Does it use the standards?”) he referred to material that was unavailable (“Oh, I’d have to ask my boss that”, or “that’s in the fine print”, or “I’m sure it’s compatible, but you’d have to check with head office”). The Scientologists respond in similar ways, though they also use that as an opportunity to sell you books (“You’d have to read the book to find that out”).

In addition, both Scientology and ACN exploit relationships with friends and family to grow their network (I’m not singling either out exclusively here – many other organisations do this too). Scientology does this by drawing a clear distinction between those that are potentially open to scientology, and those that are clearly not going to embrace it (they call them “suppressive personalities”). Scientology encourages you not to socialise at all with people who think Scientology is a load of crap.

ACN exploits familial relationships by encouraging members to recruit family and friends to be representatives of ACN. In fact, the whole focus of the organisation is heavily weighted towards growing the network over actually selling products. ACN members, I am sure, will be worded up on tactics to identify those that are open to this opportunity, and then either shut down or shut out those that aren’t.

I could go on, but I’m late for ice skating.

Thanks for reading my site! I’m sorry that my harsh response invalidated for you what was otherwise a fairly reasonable argument.


9 thoughts on “My slightly crap comparison between ACN and Scientology

  1. C.M. Gonzalez

    Holy cow do they ever exploit family relations.

    My sister’s recently become involved with these clowns, and this last May had my mother set up a Mother’s Day party for friends and relations to bring their mothers. Yes, this turned out to be an excuse for my sister to set up an ACN sales meeting. Disgusting.

    It’s bad enough that this outfit is so shady, but that they’re peddling such impractical science fiction technology makes it even worse.

    You know, it’s really difficult to find arguments, whether pro or con, regarding video phones online. I was surprised to find that I’m not the only one that’s got a beef with these guys.

    Would you have any other information regarding these folks? I’m trying to talk my parents from joining up with her in this mess.

    Sorry for ranting on your site, and thank you for your time.


  2. ronbothunter


    The secret most un-exposed about Scientology is that is it an “applied physiological philosophy” rather than an “applied religious philosophy”. All Scientology courses, all auditing processes, and all the management and professional courses are based on physiological phenomenas, psychophysiology, emotions, human behavior patterns etc., that are our birth right and used in Scientology as their own discoveries. Even their PTS-SP data is based upon how a “Symptom” re-stimulation is brought out by physiological reactions of the mind affecting the body when under stress. They blame innocent human beings called by them “suppressive persons” for bringing out a symptom that was there to warn you of hidden real illnesses caused by non-suppressive sources such as parasites, chemicals, poisons, toxins, viruses and bacteria. The data on PTS-SP is twisted by them to blame innocent people in order to keep them in line.

    The only way to fight them is to expose to the world–how Scientology has used physiological phenomenas as the basis for a false religion. How it has harmed families by claiming that innocent mothers and fathers are SPs — when they lied about symptom re-stimulations to the world.

    No where in Scientology will you find courses on any bible, there is no study or belief in heaven, hell, saints, angels, the devil, or even God himself. They do not study religion or even believe in religions. They do not share common values with any other religion. Their goal is to eliminate all other religions.

    The E-meter reads your physiological reactions, the Ronbots never calls it that—they call it the “CHARGE” or the “MASS” or “ENGRAMS” OR “MENTAL IMAGE PICTURES” that you have in your brain—all meant to distract you from the truth.

    Know this fact — There is a law of Nature or law of God called “Physiological Reactions” that is the true secret behind Scientology’s Dianectic study technology.

    AUDITING ERASES AND LESSONS YOUR PHYSIOLOGICAL REACTIONS!!! Once they are gone – your symptoms can’t be re-stimulated by stress or arguments. This is how the scam works. Now when you argue with your mother and don’t get sick – you think she was the cause of all your illnesses.

    If you were audited a hundred times (repeated) for a word that you were ordered to never clear or understand, and then made to read a page that contained that word—it would never again read on the Emeter or cause a physiological reaction.

    LRH discovered that when you passed a misunderstood word—you manifested many reactions of various types: Yawning, sleepiness, not there feeling, dizziness, blurry eyes, nervousness and dozens more.

    Being the liar that he was, he claimed that physiological reactions which he now calls “Dianetics” was “‘his” invention and not a law of God; he hid the fact that it is our human inheritance since time began.

    Granted that his power of obnosis was the best in the world, his crime against humanity was to make a “religion” based upon the falsehood, that it was his invention or creation and not a law of God belonging to all Humanity as their lawful right.

    All living beings have physiological (The functions and activities of life or of living matter such as the organic processes of organs, tissues, or cells) phenomenas (observable reactions known through the senses rather than by thought or intuition), or physical manifestations (made evident by showing or displaying) or physical reactions, that we see or feel as symptoms, and they are external and/or internal or visible signs or warnings given to us, by our creator to help us survive, help us increase our potential, our knowledge and our health.
    All life on Earth has these cause and effect reactions called physiological phenomenas. All living beings whether they are plant, insect, retile or animal or human could not live without these reactions. They influence the body’s and the mind’s reactions to any form of stimuli, and have an influence on every cell of the body and mind.
    [Noun. Physiological reaction – Is an automatic instinctive unlearned reaction to a stimulus.]
    [Examples of physiological reactions: inborn reflex, innate reflex, instinctive reflex, reflex response, unconditioned reflex, accommodation reflex, Babinski reflex, belching, headache, migraines, swelling, sweating, erections, blinking, blushing, burping, defecation reflex, disgorgement, involuntary eye blinking, farting, skin flush, gag reflex, goose bump, goose pimple, gooseflesh, involuntary gulping, involuntary hiccup, knee-jerk reflex, light reflex, puking, papillary reflex, rectal reflex, regurgitation, shaking, shiver, shock, sneezing, startle, stretch reflex, suckling reflex, trembling, upset stomach, vomiting, involuntary winking, yawn, yawning — plus hundreds more.]
    Ron studied Physiological reactions more than most scientists and applied it to invent a new Religion.
    He did not invent but copied the laws of nature and scammed the whole world into thinking that he alone discovered these reactions and no one else did. What he did do – was noticed the reactions of students and from this scam invented Dianetics “study tech”.
    Examples of Physiological reactions of the body and mind when reading:
    Falling asleep while reading – yawning, confusion, feeling blank, feeling anxious, not there feeling, tearing eyes, eyes going out of focus, dizziness, reeling, rebelliousness, headaches, skipping words, feeling nauseous, fidgeting, jumpy while reading, can’t stay still, mispronouncing words, feeling as if you are squashed, feeling as if you are over-whelmed, twitching, can’t apply what you are reading, can’t understand what you are reading, etc. are all due to physiological reactions when you read misunderstood words or misunderstood definitions.
    To understand the secrets of your enemy –is to know exactly where to hurt him.
    Scientology’s copyrighted files on based upon the laws of Nature and laws of God; they are in violation of copyrights and patent rights. Therefore, the contents or subjects can be used by anyone and can be talked about without fear of any lawsuit.
    Everything you do produces a reaction in your body and mind. Every time you read, eat, sleep, rest, run, etc. produces a reaction.
    To tell your mother that you invented a new religion, because you discovered why you farted, is a good example of the scam that Ron pulled on you. He got away with it because the world did not see these reactions as they applied to reading. Or if some scientist saw and knew it—he did not protest it and allowed a Cult to claim it as their own new discovery.
    If you want to destroy the cult, study your own reactions each time you do something—learn to read yourself and use your own power of obnosis to discover the real world within you.

    Yours truly

    All Rights Reserved.

    Copyright Ronbothunter— All Rights Reserved, Without Prejudice UCC 1-308 & 1-103.6 including rights under the UCC and common law remedies. I reserve my right not to be compelled to perform under any contract or commercial agreement that I did not personally sign and enter knowingly, voluntarily and intentionally and especially if I was not given full disclosure. I do not accept the liability of the compelled benefit of any unrevealed contract or commercial agreement.


  3. Pingback: Bookmarks about Scientology

  4. LeShawn

    Well this has been an interesting past few days – since New Year’s Eve – 2009/2010. I met this chap who said he was in the “telecom industry” and since I’ve built a software program for that industry (which I have yet to complete and subsequently market), I thought perhaps I should meet up with him.

    So met the guy on a Saturday at a local Starbucks. A female “associate” of his showed up shortly afterward. Both of them were wearing suits — on a Saturday right after New Year’s Day. Across the street was a Hilton hotel where they were going to some “business meeting.” I was invited.

    So I went and it turned out to be an ACN rally meeting. GROAN. I had never hear of ACN before that day. As a side note these ACN “reps” actually had to PAY to get IN! The bloe who’d invited me paid the $4 entry fee for me.

    So I sat there politely, eagerly waiting for my opportunity to “exit stage left.” This environment was the usual get-rich-quick fare you see on late-night TV hawking real-estate courses with no-money-down, complete with a large video screen playing testimonials of successful nobodies. The last shot of the video is Donald Trump telling the audience, you’re either a loser or a winner and by not jumping on this bandwagon, you’re essentially a loser. Then you had all the clones in suits clapping. After that a speaker comes up on the stage. And though he’s got great stage presence, there’s also something sort of contrived about him as well. He was apparently a successful lawyer who had been able to “reach the same 1,000’s of $$ in 3 years with ACN that had taken him 18 years of law practice to achieve.”

    And there are always a few people like this. There are always a FEW people who could sell snow the Eskimos and for f**k’s sake … he’s a f**king LAWYER! Why trust THAT guy?! lol

    The fallacy here is:
    Just because a FEW people are hugely successful with ACN that ANY and ALL people can be equally successful. This is an incorrect and false conclusion that the bulk of ACN suckers succumb to.

    The last time I got roped into an MLM was about 20 years ago. I was really gung-ho about it and failed miserably. Beyond that, and much more importantly, I was asked to “believe more strongly.” And as a result of this, ended up alienating family and friends.

    The reasoning goes a bit like this:
    “You should really believe in this product/program 100% and if someone in your life doesn’t support you, they are just losers who don’t want you to be successful.”

    It therefore becomes not only a religion, but a cult. This causes a person’s mind to create an artificial division between “us” and “them.” The “winners” and the “losers.”

    And over what? Some sub-standard, over-priced MLM product that 99% of the population can do without and never miss.

    Even while in the presence of these ACN people I felt like I was in the midst of a cult. Just something unnatural about it. There’s something very clone-like about them. And if you really look at the program from the top-down this is actually by design. This is what I might call the Zombie Business Model. Create 1 Zombie and get that Zombie to create 2 Zombies below him. Rinse and repeat.

    So upon returning home, I began to research ACN, something I didn’t have the benefit of doing while at the “training seminar.” My suspicions were confirmed.

    Beyond that I was vaguely reminded the 2 or 3 encounters (back in the mid 90’s) I’ve had with members of the Church of Scientology. And this lead me to examine what is now available on the web on them and other cults.

    Principally it led me to discover the top generals of Scientology, David Miscavige and Tommy Davis. Interestingly they both appear to have the same artificial, overbearing, in-your-face personalities. In fact, I’d almost argue these are not personalities at all, but the absence of personality. Tom Cruise seems to have devolved into this same kind of non-human.

    AND — based upon my observations, both recently and over the years, I’d even go so far as to say that cults (both Scientology and MLMs) are all about the destruction of personality. Positive thinking and looking at the glass as half-full is one thing, but only insofar as it is helpful, and doesn’t blind people to a wider spectrum of possibilities.

    A simple example is the development and implementation of passenger safety in automobiles. Before this science was invented, it was commonly thought that survival of collision was largely “the will of God.”

    Sure, you can go about saying to yourself, “Only people who THINK they will get into a collision WILL, so all I have to do is think the right thoughts.” By doing this you have restricted yourself to one set of eventualities. You don’t allow yourself to contemplate, “What if I get into a crash?” The balanced mind allows for both eventualities. “I don’t expect to get into a crash, but IF I do, I’m preparing for the small chance by 1) buying a safer car 2) using my seat belt 3) etc.” By doing this, you reduce the impact of unforeseen events.

    While ACN is not as dangerous or destructive to an individual or his/her family as Scientology, there is definitely a certain amount of overlap. By their very design – recruit family & friends and divorcing oneself from non-believers – a schism is created.

    To anyone who is seriously considering “joining” ACN, I would advise you to look deeper within yourself. What are your special talents and abilities? Why were you put here on this planet? To sell plastic video-phones? (yesterday’s technology btw) Or is there something you’d much rather do? What is it that you can share with the world that will give you and the others around you joy and happiness?


  5. Thanks for a brilliant and insightful post LeShawn. Sounds a lot like my personal experience (though I wasn’t dragged into the Hilton). The rep that I met really convinced me that his company was doing “advanced R&D” into video conferencing technologies. I got the same Donald Trump video, the same crap unsustainable middle-class american lifestyles shoved in my face, etc.

    Truly some morally bankrupt people at the top there. I felt sorry for this guy, he was only 19. I tried to arm him with some version of the truth. I hope he’s managed to extricate himself from this thing.


  6. Chase Robertson

    here in Dallas we have Millenium3 education. i know a few people who are doing it and all they tell me is “if i told you how it has worked for me, you wouldn’t get the same result” that’s the same thing scientologists’ will tell you. scientology has so many secrets because it has so much b/s that only the desperate would want to believe. millenium3, from what has been posted by ex-members, is a very expensive hard-sell and you are expected to see improvements or there is something wrong with YOU. again like scientology.


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